It's Where I Am with Zandra Polard

Unknown Speaker 0:00
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Zandra Polard 0:44
Good morning, Las Vegas, glorious rising. This is Andre Pollard. The show is. It's where I am, right here on 91.5 jazz and more. Today we have a very interesting guest who is a personal friend of mine. She's a psychologist, and we're going to be talking about trauma, but we're also going to be talking about somatic experiencing and psychedelics. So anyhow, welcome Denise hooks. Denise hooks, my friend. How are you? Hello, hello. I'm

Unknown Speaker 1:34
so happy that you have me on thank you for the invite.

Zandra Polard 1:38
Oh my gosh, Denise, I had you on the show before. This was, like a year and a half ago, and you gave us some great stuff. You can still find that show actually, on any of your major podcast platforms, Apple, Spotify, Google, whatever you just would type in, it's where I am with Zandra, and you can find all of the shows that have been broadcasted right there, but the problem, or the issue with that show was that I lost my voice, And so you gave all of this great information, but my speaking voice wasn't quite there that day, so I'm glad you are back and we can talk about some of these same issues again, so that possibly it could be rerun in the future. Okay,

Unknown Speaker 2:38
yes, yes, I remember that was very soon after your surgery, yes,

Zandra Polard 2:43
but you know, you can still get it. You can still listen to it. Don't worry about my voice. You can get that information. That's the important piece, right? Yeah, yeah, because this show deals with mental health and wellness. So let's get into it, can you explain the difference between therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy and somatic therapy, or somatic experiencing?

Unknown Speaker 3:17
Yeah, that's a great question. I think cognitive behavioral therapy is how I like to explain it is, when it's a it's a top down type of therapeutic approach, but the way that I like to think about it, it's, it's outside in, instead of inside out. So what that means is that cognitive behavioral therapy is really focused on your cognition. You know, the word is in the name, so it's super heady. It has a lot of homework attached to it, and it's really about altering your thought process in order to change your narrative, in order to change your belief systems and values and to find different perspectives which can be helpful. And I also think that in depending on what type of trauma someone has experienced, you can reach a wall with cognitive behavioral therapy, because trauma is trapped in our nervous system. And so what somatic experiencing is is it's the experience of your Nourse nervous system, both in the parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous system. So that's when we're really excited and feeling those high highs, anxious, maybe a sense of panic or paranoia, because our sympathetic nervous system and then our parasympathetic nervous system, which is when we're feeling those low lows, you know, depression, suicidality, lack of motivation, really lethargic, right? And so So somatic experiencing is when we can work with your body to like that's why I like to call it inside out. So we start from the inside of our body in order to understand why our external world the outside, is the way that it is for us. And so when we work with our nervous system, we have this opportunity to really re alter a lot of things. We can we can heal some of the wounds within our nervous system. But ultimately, you know, as a practice, practitioner that works primarily with the bipod community and oppressed communities. It's really important for us, because what it's doing is that we're doing generational healing here, because that scientifically, what we know is that when you work in your somatic experience, you also, you also can alter your genome. So this really brings up epigenetics.

Zandra Polard 6:04
Wow. So all that you just said means that when we're having trauma, our bodies experience the trauma as well, and we're taking all of that in physically, right? And then we need a way to release it. And we don't know how I know maybe, I think, you know, a lot of the trauma maybe I've experienced, it has to be caught in my body. It has to be trapped because I cannot touch my toes.

Unknown Speaker 6:41
Yeah, no, then that's actually such a great example. Because

Zandra Polard 6:47
Is that true is not just because I'm a stiff person,

Unknown Speaker 6:52
but you're you could potentially be stiff because there's trauma trapped and can stored in certain areas of your body that have has never been released, and so it's just been compounded. Okay? So, yes, like that. That's a perfect example. It's not silly at all, because what we don't realize is that when the trauma, what I say is trauma is not the experience that's very subjective me and you can go through the same traumatic event and your body is traumatized and my body isn't. And that is because trauma is not the experience. It's not what we cognitively decide is trauma. Okay? Trauma is body's response to an experience that is too overwhelming for our nervous system to process, and so it gets stuck, and so that keeps us in a fight, like freeze response,

Zandra Polard 7:49
a fighter, what was it again? I'm sorry

Unknown Speaker 7:53
I said. And so that keeps our bodies in a fight, flight, freeze or fawn? Response, oh, okay,

Zandra Polard 7:58
okay. I'm sorry I interrupted you. I had a question, but I've forgotten it now, so just go on ahead.

Unknown Speaker 8:07
No, yeah. So, so, yes. So when you're talking about, well, I can't touch my toes, these are actually symptoms, and when we think about diagnoses, understanding trauma really helps us understand diagnoses, because when we understand how our bodies navigate the world for us and ultimately protect us and keep us alive, which is what our autonomic nervous system does for us. And so when we understand that, we understand how when we don't treat the nervous system, ultimately it shows up in symptomology, right? So that looks like depression, that can look like anxiety, that can look like ADHD, that can look like autism, that can look like PTSD. And so it's oftentimes untreated nervous system that results in symptomology that we then categorize as disorders, disorders

Zandra Polard 9:15
and disease. That's where my thought process was going. Yeah, a lot of times, right? What did you say? Of course,

Unknown Speaker 9:24
yes, dis ease, right? Like, break that word up. Dis ease in the body, okay, that's what it is. Okay.

Zandra Polard 9:31
Makes sense? Yeah. Have you ever heard, you know, your grandmother, your aunt or something says they'll say something like, you know that's gonna make you sick. If you keep all of that stuff in, you have to get it out. It's gonna make you sick. Yeah, that's definitely true.

Unknown Speaker 9:53
Yeah, wow, yeah. 100%

Zandra Polard 9:56
true. So what does that look like? Because I've had a. Guest on the show who was a a yoga instructor, and she worked with trauma through yoga. So for you, how do you work with the somatic experience?

Unknown Speaker 10:15
There's a few ways. Like somatic experiencing is a method, like it's it's what it's called, but it's also a method to treating and so what that is, is moving through traumatic experiences with your body, not necessarily like the verbalized story of what happened, which is why, also, somatic experiencing tends to be very effective for people who have gone through extreme traumatic events, sexual assault survivors, you know, people who had to flee their country, or veterans. So when we had these extreme experiences of trauma, it's not always in our best interest to just start telling the story over and over and over to try and find the meaning that can actually dis regulate our nervous system even more and ultimately cause more injury to our nervous system. So what's great about somatic experiencing is that when we actually move through that practice, we're talking to your body and we're talking to your sensational body. I always say we have like levels, right? We have emotions, we have feelings, and then we have sensations. Okay? So our emotions are like what we call it, what we've named it, what us as a culture has has named anxiety. Our feeling is the noticing, the noticing that something is happening in our body. There's been a shift, a change, a restriction, whatever it is, and then the sensation, which this is a language that people tend to learn when they're moving through somatic experiencing, is what sensation is that showing up right now that you are naming an emotion, you can feel something happening in your body. What sensationally is that in that language is what most people are not equipped with. And so they start to understand, Oh, it feels constricted, or it feels expansive, or it feels hot. You know, these are all sensory words. And so once we understand like, oh, there's like, trembling happening. We can really locate where that is happening in our body, and that can be maybe in our heart or on our chest, on our lowest

Zandra Polard 12:54
back, because mine is in my stomach. No, yeah. Stomach

Unknown Speaker 12:58
is a huge one because it's our gut. Our gut biome is so important to our somatic experiencing. And so stomach, you know? And so when we pinpoint those locations, what we do is we work with that sensation, right? We sit in it. And I know that term is so overly used these days, but really, that's what we we we do together is we ask, is it manageable right now in this moment? And if so, what is it like to just sit with this for a moment and allow it to do what it wants to do for you? Because I'll tell I tell people this all the time. Our body knows how to feel, we have to get out of the place.

Zandra Polard 13:43
Okay? So you know, if I'm sitting in this uncomfortable feeling of trauma in my body, and you are asking me to stay there and visit with it, then what? How do I get better? Feel better. How do I change that feeling

Unknown Speaker 14:10
so you don't,

Zandra Polard 14:13
well, don't you want to make it better?

Unknown Speaker 14:16
No, you don't need to. Okay. Feeling, feeling is not about eliminating a problem. Feeling is surrendering to a sensation. So we are actually allowing something to happen. We are not eliminating it from happening. And that's a shift, right? Because when we feel discomfort, we're programmed to think, I don't want to feel this anymore. How do I get rid of it? Right? And what thematic experiencing is doing in a safe container is allowing you to. To experience the discomfort, because ultimately, your body will move through it on its own. So as you sit in discomfort, what happens is that it begins to shift and move in your body. Sometimes you start to feel it transformed into other sensations, transform into other places in your body. And we notice this happening because there are telltale signs, you know, that people give off, that something has released. I'll tell you. One of mine is that I'm a burper, so like if a sensation has moved through to its completion, I burp often. But there's other you can take. You can do a big side breath. Is a big one, like, ah,

Zandra Polard 15:52
yeah, no, I do that one very well.

Unknown Speaker 15:56
Your body, I've moved through something to its completion, that's what I say. Like our bodies actually know how to feel. We don't have to tell it what to do. It's actually a bio physiological response, and so when we just have to get up out of its way. So when it happens, what we're learning in somatic experiencing is to allow it to happen. Because what we know is that when we feel discomfort, oftentimes like I think the study that came out says that when we're feeling a bad feeling, it lasts for under a minute,

Zandra Polard 16:37
and it feels like forever, doesn't it?

Unknown Speaker 16:39
And it feels like forever. Well, it does. It is forever if we never allow it to do what it needs to do for us.

Zandra Polard 16:47
Okay, okay, I'm understanding you a lot more now, okay, because then

Unknown Speaker 16:51
it just keeps coming, knocking, knock, knocking on our door, yes, and that's our body. Hey, I need to feel this. Hey, I need to feel this. Hey, I'm still here. Okay, you know, so it is, it's, it's, it's this, it's a practice of allowance instead of dismissal. Okay,

Zandra Polard 17:13
sorry saying all that I had to burp. And what was that? It could have been the burger I ate this morning.

Unknown Speaker 17:21
You're moving. You're moving through stuff on this.

Zandra Polard 17:24
Okay, something is moving through me right now. But anyhow, so I know that you still have telehealth, right if someone wanted more information about somatic experiencing or would like to try this type of therapy. How can one reach you?

Unknown Speaker 17:48
Oh, yeah. So my handle on all my handles, my website, is therapy by denise.com my Instagram and Tiktok are the same at therapy by Denise and current. Recently, I actually started accepting insurance. I have a lot of ways that you can pay. I have a pay what you can because I just can't afford this, you know, like, Okay, what you got this week? I'll take it. We'll get it. And then I also have, like, subscription programs and things like that to make it easier, where you get free sessions. And then, yes, I recently started taking insurance. I take Aetna anthem, Blue Cross, Blue Shield in Cigna. So if you're if you hear any of those, because I can see you the insurance. And yeah, i Those are, those are all the ways to retreat. You can give me a call, 702-483-7450, a text is better.

Zandra Polard 18:52
Okay, yes, well, because I had, I had to text you myself, but you deal specifically with trauma, somatic experiencing and psychedelics. So tell us about the psychedelics, honey. So this is a different type of therapy that's coming back around. It's gaining popularity. I was speaking to someone who, what is he? He's some he's Native American and Mexican, I believe. But he was telling us about his forest adventure with this shaman, yeah, so explain to us how this works. What is therapy using psychedelics. How is it safe? And how can it benefit an adult? Because I'm sure only adults would use this type of therapy

Unknown Speaker 19:55
in our culture, yeah, in our culture.

Zandra Polard 19:57
Let's stay in our culture. Okay. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 20:02
I appreciate this, this question. So what's great about psychedelics is that they go hand in hand with somatic experiencing. I use plant medicines only. I don't I don't use things that are, like, genetically modified and engineered in a lab. So I don't use ketamine or

Zandra Polard 20:29
LSD that was the ketamine May.

Unknown Speaker 20:33
Yeah, although I sat with MDMA, like for myself, my own treatments. I just only sit with people in the plant space, and I just like to stay as connected to earth as possible. So that would be mushrooms. We sit with hot Bay, which is a tobacco and like a tobacco snuff, and then also combo, which is from poison. And so that was

Zandra Polard 21:11
the one he was talking about, the one who told me about his experience. Okay, so tell us how this works.

Unknown Speaker 21:20
So each one has its is its own medicine and has its own journey. I will say, I'll speak to shrooms, because that's like the most commonly known shrooms is a very beautiful medicine and very powerful where what it does is it works in your nervous system, and it can rewire your synapse, your your synapse in your brain, and it allows you to have gateways open so that you can have different perspectives, you know, kind of go into spaces that are outside of yourself and see yourself in almost like a third party perspective. Oh, my God. And really, when people have an opportunity to do these things, there are profound experiences and realizations that people have that are life changing. You know, another medicine that is very kin to the heart, because it's from Africa, it's an African root, is ebogine, and we're seeing with the bogine that it is very effective in treating addiction, and we're seeing more

Zandra Polard 22:39
Wait a minute. So you're using this plant medicine to help with addictions? Yes, but you can argue, is it? But wait, does the patient or the client become addicted to the plants?

Unknown Speaker 22:57
It's that's the beautiful thing about plants, they're non addictive, okay, yeah, so they don't have any addictive qualities, which is great, right? When we're talking about people doing like Suboxone, and you know that are trying to get out of addiction and have moved into Suboxone, I mean, that is addictive. So they're trading it could be treating one addiction for another. Yes, yes. So what's amazing about plant medicines and psychedelics is that they don't have addictive traits. So and with ebogine, what's so cool about a bogine is that people are sitting with it once and completely clearing their addictions that they have struggled with for like, 25 years. And what it is is that it's impacting the part of the brain that really has the craving, because it's like, yes, you can, like, be sober, but that, I don't know if you've ever heard someone who struggled with addiction before say, yes, I've been sober for 10 years, but I still crave it. You know, I still have moments where, like, I could pick up a beer and I want to, like, do it. You know, the cravings never go away. And so ebogine, when people are sitting with this now, Ibogaine is a very strong medicine. It's a very strong teacher. And that is done if you're not going to, like Africa or some other country to do it, to sit with the people. You're doing it in a clinic, and so, like they're monitoring you, and they have doctors on staff. And it is also a medicine that you are in for 24 to 3038, hours.

Zandra Polard 24:57
Oh, we that's a long, high.

Unknown Speaker 25:01
Yeah, yes, but also, like time does not exist when you are in these journeys.

Zandra Polard 25:06
Exist? Does hunger? No,

Unknown Speaker 25:10
because we put you on a day before you sit. Okay, so you're on very strict diets, because there are some foods that can in, like intercept the medicine, and it's how effective it is. So we do put you on a diet set, and then when you are fitting, depending on what you're sitting with, it's an extended journey. So like shroom, that's going to be about a four to six hour journey Max.

Zandra Polard 25:45
I've never, yes, if you're doing done, I've never tried shrooms or anything. So I'm completely oblivious to I can't connect to that. I have no idea it's, yeah,

Unknown Speaker 26:01
I think the biggest thing is people fearing like they're going to be taken somewhere and not able to get back. Yeah. Now

Zandra Polard 26:09
I've heard horror stories about them. You know, people having they call it bad trips, quote, unquote, Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 26:17
correct. And I'm one who doesn't believe that people have bad journeys. I believe that people are not prepared for the journey that they are given and awakened to, and then they also have appropriate support and resources post journey and through their integration. So I think what's really important when you are seeking psychedelic treatment is to have appropriate support. Now we're seeing tons and tons of groups that are doing group ceremonies all over the states. You know, Colorado has legalized psychedelics, and I'm sure California is right behind them. And who knows, maybe Nevada is because Nevada does everything that California does. And so like I think that what's really important, especially after someone's journey, because a journey can be extremely challenging. I've had very challenging journeys, and is to have resources afterwards for someone to help you connect the dots in the journey, you know, and I think that's my biggest in this space, in the plant medicine space, it's my biggest advocacy, because I don't see it enough happening where we have these groups that are providing beautiful spaces for ceremonies, for for multiple people at once, and then it's like, okay, you know, we're going to educate you that it's going to take time to integrate and find meaning, but then we just send you back into the world,

Zandra Polard 27:56
right? You've had your experience. There you go. Go back out the door. So I would think, yes, a few sessions of this, but you

Unknown Speaker 28:06
can easily go into a shock state, because what you're experiencing is so profound, it's really hard to integrate yourself back into a world, and specifically the Western world, that is completely counter to what you experienced during a plant medicine journey. And so what I would love to see more of is having like emotional support therapists who are offering like sessions, pro bono sessions, you know, just people that are aware of like trauma and very trauma informed people that like our resources, like after you do the ceremony you're going to be integrating. And here's our list of resources, of people that are trusted that can help guide you through your integration phase.

Zandra Polard 29:00
Well, hey, this was a show about trauma, somatic experiencing and psychedelics. Thank you for all of that information. It was a lot. Ms hooks, thank you so much for coming on to the show. You must come back and give us more. Yeah, because it's a lot to learn. So I want to thank everyone who has turned on the radio this morning, thank you for tuning in. My name is Zandra Pollard. The show is, it's where I am. I'm here every Saturday at 7:30am Thank you. We'll talk to you next week. It's where I am. Bye. You.

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