It's Where I Am with Zandra Polard

Unknown Speaker 0:00
You're listening to locally produced programming created in KU NBC Studios on public radio K, u and v. 91.5.

Unknown Speaker 0:11
You're listening to special programming brought to you by it's where I am.com The content of this program does not reflect the views or opinions of 91.5 jobs and more University of Nevada, Las Vegas, or the Board of Regents, the Nevada System of Higher Education.

Unknown Speaker 0:50
Good morning, can you envy 91.5 FM listeners, this is Dr. G. On it's where I am. I'm David JENICE, clinical and public relations director at great minds counseling and Wellness Center in Las Vegas, Nevada. And I have with me today, Michelle Johnson, who is a peer recovery support specialists. Hi, Michelle. Hi, how are you? I'm doing great, thank you so much for agreeing to come on the show and, and to share your experience accessing mental health services on it's where I am. This is a public radio show where we have the opportunity to identify community resources, and talk about what's available to assist others in managing their mental health needs. As well as identifying where to go, where to access care how to go about accessing resources. And, you know, this is one of the primary reasons why I thought you'd be such a great contributor today, Michelle, because of your story, which I'm so excited for you to be able to share with with our listeners at KU NV.

Unknown Speaker 2:13
Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2:15
So, you know, each week, I've had the privilege of introducing different theoretical interventions or models, just really providing more information about these different interventions to community to community members, knowing that they they exist and and and, you know, some of these interventions are relatively newer, as far as being different or, or being supplemental to what we would think of regular therapy with just talk therapy. And so what I thought would be helpful for our listeners and our community members is really having an opportunity to dive in and go through the therapy process. And and really helping people have more information and feeling prepared in regards to having a successful experiencing experience, excuse me accessing care and and initiating and participating in talk therapy. Because I feel like that there is still today so many stigmas that impacts individuals desire and thinking about want to participate in therapy and to want to access you know, appropriate level of services, that really would help move them or a friend or their family or a family member and in the right direction as far as living a higher quality of living and and being safe and maybe experiencing increased happiness on a day to day basis. So, Michelle, that leads me to wanting to ask you my first question. So you are a peer recovery support specialist. Would you mind sharing with our listeners? What what is that? That's a fancy title.

Unknown Speaker 4:30
So it is a person with lived experience. So I have lived experience with substance use alcoholism and mental health. So I share with people that are struggling, you know how to get help. So like you're talking, you know, I share with what worked for me and try to lead them in the right direction. I

Unknown Speaker 4:57
love that. I love that. So I really had I've had the privilege to work alongside peer support partners, which is just another term for the peer recovery support specialists role since 2008. And I've had the opportunity to observe how helpful having a peer recovery support specialist as part of the treatment team, for an individual and family, oftentimes, I've observed that people accessing care, I initially open up quicker. And first, to these peer support partners, because they relate to those folks a lot quicker than they do to the therapist or the psychiatrist or other team members. So I've just found that the role that you work in today, Michelle is is just so important for a treatment team to access the the community resources that will help families sustain the changes that they're making throughout the course of their participation in therapy. So, you know, I have to say, kudos to you, because I just have so much respect for this role. And I just know how many individuals and families that you have been able to help throughout the years, and and it just warms my heart. So thank you.

Unknown Speaker 6:39
Thanks, David.

Unknown Speaker 6:39
So So okay, so my next question is, though, Michelle, so So now, at some point, though, in your life, you determined or or maybe somebody else determined for you that you needed, maybe to get involved in something to help you move your life forward in a positive direction? Can you talk a little bit about that, as far as like, what happened? What was the catalyst.

Unknown Speaker 7:11
So my catalyst was actually going to jail and having a judge ordered me to get help for my substance use. I went into crossroads in Northern Nevada. And that's when I was provided with all of the everything I needed a counselor, a therapist, a case manager, you know, so I had everything in one spot, which is so much better and easier, but it can be done. Other ways. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 7:45
So. So then you were mandated, though, by referral source that said, you know, you had to participate in therapy. Is that okay, all right. So that's certainly one direct avenue to get connected to therapy, and to initiate that process. And so I would say, then, Michelle, for you, it was involuntary. Even though you may have felt that, okay, this is the right thing for you to do at that time in your life. It was being mandated, though. So you didn't really have a choice. You had to go and participate.

Unknown Speaker 8:31
Right, well, I had a choice. I could have left, but okay, no, it was you either do this or you're not. It's not part of your programs to this program.

Unknown Speaker 8:45
Okay. Okay. So, so there's this kind of how I think about accessing or the the routes to access care. You know, there's involuntary and then voluntary, and and so I think that for many individuals, that process to determine that they're ready and motivated to initiate therapy or clinical services. That's a that's a heavy initial decision. Can you maybe talk about that, Michelle, and if the if you if there was anything that came up for you, around, you know, wanting to go in deep, if you will, and taking a look at yourself that would eventually lead to making changes and your behaviors?

Unknown Speaker 9:42
Absolutely. So my mother passed away when I was quite young, and I had never dealt with that trauma. So substance use was my way of masking that and, you know, just piling on the trauma. and not ever working through it. So once I, you know, I got my therapist who, seven years later still my therapist, we were able to get to the root, you know, and I went to a psychiatrist, they're like, Well, you're a little bit anxious, and you're like, bit depressed. And I was like, okay, so what do I do to to fix that? You know, and yeah, they give you medications, but they highly, highly recommend therapy to get to what is causing, you know, this severe depression or this high anxiety, because it didn't, didn't start, there's something a core there that is causing

Unknown Speaker 10:45
it. Okay, so, so, what I, what I heard, Michelle, was that, once you were able to be connected to the appropriate level of care, for what you needed in your life, to be able to move forward and to heal and to be safe, and and to eventually move forward, to be healthier. You were connected with a team. And then your primary therapist is the individual that sat with you. And and, and listen to you and helped you identify what was the root I believe you said, of what was bringing, bringing forth and bringing out of you behaviors that weren't really helpful to you, which were related to not dealing with trauma that happened much earlier in your life

Unknown Speaker 11:56
much, much earlier. And through like going through therapy, we did do the EMDR, which was a very intense behavior, but that was about three years into seeing my therapist. Okay,

Unknown Speaker 12:15
so for listeners, Michelle, reference, the term E, M, D, R. And for those of you listening, that are unfamiliar with that term, that is eye movement, desensitization reprocessing. And so can you talk a little bit about what that was, like Michelle participating in that specific style of therapy.

Unknown Speaker 12:44
Fit, we'd literally, I felt the trauma coming out of my hands, as we're going through it, and you find a safe space. And you work through this trauma, you know, and it took us about two months. But today, I'm able to say, you know, like my mom's death wasn't my fault. I am good enough as a person. And these are things that for years, years, I couldn't look in the mirror and not feel guilty for something that I didn't do.

Unknown Speaker 13:19
Michelle, you were just like touching, touching my heart. You know, listening to your feelings. connected to your mom's passing. Is is moving. It's powerful. And to think about though the heaviness associated with you carrying though, thoughts around how you were connected to your mom passing? And it sounds like you carried that heaviness in you for years. Before you were connected to the correct resources.

Unknown Speaker 13:59
Yeah, almost 20 years. Oh,

Unknown Speaker 14:01
my goodness. So for 20 years, you were carrying in your body, this trauma that was then contributing to bringing out from you feelings and thoughts that lead to maladaptive behaviors, which was drinking and drug use. Is that what the what your specific behaviors were?

Unknown Speaker 14:27
Yes. And

Unknown Speaker 14:28
so, okay, so now you are in the therapy office, you You're, you're you've built this safe therapeutic relationship with with your therapist that's working with you. You know, I can only infer, Michelle, that during that process, that, you know, the emergence of this insight and feelings and other thinking could be over whelming Did you ever feel like that as you kind of went through your healing process?

Unknown Speaker 15:07
I did. I thought, you know, not caring that, you know, I felt like I was crazy, because I thought these feelings for so long actually went impatient at a point to regulate my thoughts, because my thoughts were self harm. Because I, I had felt the pain for so long, and then I was finally able to let go of that pain and it triggered part of my brain, you know that to hurt myself.

Unknown Speaker 15:46
And so then when you started having those feelings or thoughts rather of wanting to harm yourself, that's when your team connected you then to inpatient hospitalization, so that you could be medically monitored, observed to make sure that you could not have access to anything to harm yourself with. So. Okay, all right. So again, that's connecting you to the most appropriate, least restrictive level of care. So your team did a great job. You know, what I heard, though, was that, as you were moving through this process of what I'm going to refer to as healing, that there was also though, a different type of heaviness that was surfacing from you. Because you were working through all that stuff that you were carrying for about 20 years. And so I think this acknowledgement is so significant for our listeners to just hold in mind. Because that could be a breaking point, if an individual or family is going to continue with treatment, because of the intensity of what they may be feeling at that time. And so even though that the work is being done, to set the stage, if you will, to promote change in behaviors, and long term healing, it's still really heavy, emotionally and overwhelming, anything you want to say about that. Michelle,

Unknown Speaker 17:30
I try to tell people that I deal with on a daily basis, you know, if you get a therapist, and you don't feel the click in like two or three sessions, it is okay to ask for a different person, you know, not everybody's gonna match up 100% I still talk to my therapist, even though she isn't practicing anymore, she is literally still living my life, you know, just to check in with, you know, whether things are good or bad, we check in, you know, like, keeping that as a consistent in my life has helped me, ya

Unknown Speaker 18:07
know, I appreciate hearing this so much, because, as trained therapists, you know, we go to graduate school, and we're trained in a very specific way, almost cold, to be to be candid in how we are to present ourselves because of the need to maintain ethical and healthy boundaries in the professional relationship of therapists to patient. And though, how we're trained in graduate school, that's not really how we practice in it in community and real practice. In the real world. You know, therapists are human beings as well. And we have problems just like everybody else. And, you know, I feel like the therapists that have the greatest success and have the highest outcomes are those that don't view themselves any differently than the patients that they're treating, that are sitting in the chair across from them. And I think there should be a level of humbleness that the the clinical provider should present with so that they can help individuals like yourself, Michelle, continue to have the courage to participate in services and and to come back so throughout now you did you live to at your program, Crossroads

Unknown Speaker 19:48
I did. I lived there for almost two years.

Unknown Speaker 19:51
Okay, so then work there. So

Unknown Speaker 19:53
that's where that you know, I lived in work there. So literally doing peer support since Beginning of my recovery.

Unknown Speaker 20:02
Okay, so you got introduced to this philosophy of pure recovery. early on. I mean, as soon as you were really becoming involved and participating in clinical services, absolutely. So, okay. I saw I'm trying to, like, connect dots, and show how there is a pathway in in the therapeutic process. And the reason why I think this is really helpful for people to understand how therapy works, because, you know, there's so much emotional energy that's involved in this process, and in the relationship process, that is between the therapists, the clinical providers, the therapeutic treatment team, and the individual and the family, that things sometimes can go already, where are off track, because of cognitive perceptions, on understanding of how decisions are being made, and, and how progress is being viewed and determined, and how identified needs are being discussed. And, you know, there's so many layers, and it's so complex, this, this process of therapy, that there's lots of opportunities, though, for things to go wrong. That then would lead though, and individual and family potentially stopping treatment and not getting the treatment that they really need to be healthy and to move forward and to be safe and to live. Hopefully, happier, higher quality of life.

Unknown Speaker 22:05
So does it the roadblocks are usually put up by, you know, individuals? Because there's that one component that's missing. Right? So or something's gone wrong.

Unknown Speaker 22:20
So then Michelle, what would you say? What would you say to a person or family that is thinking about accessing care, thinking about going into a therapy office initiating that relationship with the provider, but they're uncertain, they're they're feeling nervous? Maybe there's fear associated with what their neighbors or their employer or other family members might think about them for participating in mental health treatment, or substance use treatment? What would you say to people that that really do need help and need support, but they're uncertain if if they want to enroll in therapy?

Unknown Speaker 23:11
I would say Please let go of the that stigma of what other people are going to think, because at the end of the day, people are going to be so happy and proud that you've done something to change your life. You know, therapy sometimes is once or twice a week, for an hour session, you know, and of course, our brains tell us Oh, well, I could be doing so many other things. We binge watch TV shows longer than that, you know, show up for yourself. And I promise other people will see the difference. So

Unknown Speaker 23:47
I really, I love what you just said, Michelle, because you said show up for yourself. Can I get a hallelujah? You know, yeah, thank you. You know, that is so important, though. And and and, you know, I'm not making light of what you just said, I'm highlighting and emphasizing what what you said Michelle, because that leads to self care. And and so I feel like making time in your busy schedule to participate once or twice and weekly therapy for yourself is is making an investment in your social emotional and mental well being. And, and why would any one of us not want to do that if it's going to lead to us having higher self esteem, having better self confidence, love learning new skills that may lead us to having better relationships. You know, I could go on and on and on about the benefit of For all of us to participate in therapy, and now I realize I'm a little biased because of being a therapist, and I've done this work for 24 years. And I've, if you can believe this, Michelle have been a clinical director over every level of care in the mental health industry. So yes, I do believe every single one of us should have access in their cell phones, speed dial to therapists, because it's just healthy, it's healthy for all of us to have somebody that we can reach out to, and, and to have someone in our life that's unbiased, and that will listen. And, and that will help identify opportunities that may lead to increasing the joy and happiness that we have in our life. And so, you know, there's different styles of therapy, there's different mediums of therapy, so an individual, a patient, one person could do individual therapy, if there's identified needs associated with family needs. You know, that could be family therapy. There's a group therapy. I mean, there's, there's all sorts of therapy that individuals can access to meet specific needs. And and so it's really identifying, okay, what is the catalyst for therapy? You know, what is it that I hope to achieve by by becoming involved in, in therapy, and then I, and then I recall, Michelle, what you said earlier was, you know, be mindful of what the relationship feels like, between you and your provider. And after two or three sessions, if you feel like there's really not that clicking, that it's okay. Ask to, you know, be paired with a different provider, to see if there's a better personality fit, maybe a better temperament, fit or cultural fit. So that, you know, that will lead to best case outcomes. So, Michelle, exactly, is there anything else that you feel would be really beneficial for our K, u and v. listeners to, you know, just hold in mind when they're thinking about connecting themselves or a family member to therapy.

Unknown Speaker 27:39
Um, one thing that comes to mind is my therapist told me that even therapists need therapists. So it's not a stigma that you're less than or, you know, below anybody, you know, we all need some level of help in our life. And if you get it, it changes your life.

Unknown Speaker 27:57
Absolutely. And so as part of my doctoral training, and then even before that piece of education, you know, I had done individual therapy, when I adopted my children, we did family therapy. In my 17 year marriage, I did three years of couples therapy, one at the first year of marriage, and then one at the 10 year mark from that 17 year relationship. And, you know, it's just ongoing. And as a therapist, it's so important that we remain open and open minded to continue to learn and to grow as a professional. And I love what you said, Michelle, because that really ties in to what I just I acknowledged earlier, in regards to some of the attributes that is helpful for therapists to be successful. And one of those is is to be humble. Because I feel like there's a lot of ego actually in mental health. And it's really important, I think, to check that at the door. So that we can present like we are no better than those who sit across from us. So Michelle, I just want to thank you so much for being part of this very important conversation. This is Dr. G, before it's where I am on 91.5 FM K u n, d. Until next time, I'm Dr. Jean

Transcribed by https://otter.ai